Ford Fiesta 1.4 tdci 2006


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By ncbng01 - 5/11/2012 3:46:25 PM
Need some help with the above vehicle.

It starts from cold and misfires, engine shakes and runs rought on tickover. Pick the revs up above 1000 revs and it runs fine. Once the engine has run for about 7/8 minutes it smoths out and runs ok. When it runs rough there is a bit of diesel knock.

It had a replacement pump fitted about 2000 miles ago, because pump was leaking from flat plate on top of pump. But ran ok after it was fitted. The vehicle was then bought in approx 1000 miles later with poor acceleration, this was traced to a blocked fuel filter. Removed tank and found lots of muck in tank. Cleaned out and all was ok for another 1000 miles or so.

Compression check is all ok. Carried out spill check on injectors, number 1 a bit higher than the the other three, replaced with an exchange injector, now all the injectors read the same when spill tested. We have blanked off the egr valve, no difference. I am aware the fuel pipes can be a bit suspect above rocker cover, all seem ok.

Using a DEC 3, we have occasionaly seen fault coded P0089 but only when its been running or road tested for a while. Do not get it when its running rough after initial start up. Looking at live data when running rough I am getting 19-20 MPA of fuel pressure. Looking at cylinder 1 -4 values, I am getting, cyl 1 262, cyl 2 268, cyl 3 268, cyl 4 396/402. Im not sure what these values are measuring. are they the injector readings or a cylinder balance reading. Does no.4 396, mean the ecu is trying to balance the engine or is it that injector 4 is worn thats why its value is so different? I swopped the original injector from number 1 into no.4 and the radings are the same.

These values smoth out and are much more the same as each other when the engine has been running for a while and it smooths out. When the engine revs are increased to around 1000 revs, all these values are the same.

Any help or advice anyone can give would be much appreciated.
By K And R - 5/11/2012 4:45:43 PM
n01

"Compression check is all ok." which tells us nothing. post the data.

Kev.
By tk - 5/11/2012 7:29:01 PM
There are soft ware up dates going for the mondeos,focus,transits,ect,which cures this kind of problem,it should be available for fiestas too i would be thinking,

Also check the fuel line for air between the filtre and the high pres pump.
By ncbng01 - 5/12/2012 2:34:33 AM
Hi, thanks for the replies.

Kand R - the compression values engine cold;

cyl 1-340psi Cyl 2-340psi cyl 3- 310psi cyl 4-320psi I thought it could be struggling for compression when cold and improves when it warms up, just want to cover all angles before we start taking the engine apart.

tk, I have read elsewhere that there are soft ware updates, I will contact our Ford dealer today and see what they say.

I can see air bubbles in the pipe to filter. When the car has been standing, before the engine is started, if I squeeze the primer, there are alot of air bubbles shooting down that clear pipe that runs along the rocker cover. It looks like that pipe is part of a series of pipework. When I contact Fords today i'll ask.

Thansk again for the suggestions, i'll post back later.
By K And R - 5/12/2012 5:06:07 AM
n01

" I will contact our Ford dealer today and see what they say." the best way to see if it need,s a calibration (or if it has already been done) is to get it on up to date subs paid IDS. Many of us indy,s have IDS, but fewer are genuine up to date ones, and only those can download the calibration,s direct from fords data base.

Kev.
By ncbng01 - 5/12/2012 7:53:17 AM
Thanks Kev.

I have replaced the pipework to the filter housing etc. I have ran the car but wont be sure if its better until I leave it to stand overnight. I'm going to leave it over the weekend and try it Monday morning. If its ok, not totaly convinced it will be....., then great. If its still no good i'm going to get into Fords to check for update. I would rather use and independent who has IDS, but i dont know of any in my area. The people who supplied our DEC may know, so ill do a bit of digging if needs be.

Many thanks, see what Monday brings..... Hopefully sunshine, and not rain Wink
By K And R - 5/12/2012 10:26:58 AM
n01

"but i dont know of any in my area" nor we will know, as there is no location in your profile.

Kev.
By ncbng01 - 5/14/2012 7:17:50 AM
Hi,

just to update. Vehicle no different after the pipe work change. Started on the button, but very lumpy when ticking over. As it warms up the engine smooths out, but when cold its not very good on idle. I dont think its 'air in fuel' as it takes 10 mins or so untils it starts to run smoother, I would have thought the air would be forced out within a shorter time than this. We have a very high figure for no.4 cylinder, in the cylinder 1-4 live data. This reduces as it warms up. Beginning to think we may have a problem with a poor valve seat in the head or something similar, that improves as the engine warms up...

KandR, I'll update my profile....Oops. Blush
By supertek - 5/14/2012 1:45:30 PM
Sounds more like egr or glow plug fault?
By tk - 5/14/2012 2:30:18 PM
Run a direct diesel supply from a clean container going directly into your hight pressure pump,

This will rule out air as a issue.and see how it idles then.
By ncbng01 - 5/16/2012 4:46:03 AM
Hi, still battling away with this one.

I have used a can of fuel direct to the pump, so to elimate the whole fuel pipe work etc,and it idles the same, very lumpy.

Carried out another compression check this morning without running the engine.

Cyl 1 - 340 psi .Cyl 2 - 360 psi .Cyl 3 - 320 psi .Cyl 4 - 380 psi I would have expected compression to be alot worse than 320 to cause misfire, but i'm not ruling out removing the head.

The injectors seem difficult to test. I have rang a couple of diesel shops and they say the Siemens injectors are difficult test and be conclusive with test results....

The vehicle starts on the button, but runs really lumpy, engine shakes, you can feel it vibrating when sitting in the drivers seat.

I feel like my options are, remove head and check for valve wear, but based on compressions not totaly convinced. Injectors? Diesel pump? although this was replaced a while ago(for a leak fault). According to our local Ford dealer there are no updates available for this model, although this was based on info from ecu over the phone, they did not have car plugged in to diagnostics.
By Angus - 5/16/2012 12:56:38 PM
nc

This isn't a DMF issue - is it?
By SB126 - 5/16/2012 4:23:50 PM
Angus, I was thinking that, reading this post today but i could not explain why

it evens out after running for a few minutes.
By ncbng01 - 5/17/2012 2:38:40 AM
Hi, Thanks for the replies.

Its runs rough first thing, and when it warms up its much better and smoother, but there is still a slight misfire/engine rock.

There is no change to lumpiness when clutch is depressed....
By laldog - 5/17/2012 4:59:31 AM
I would be testing the 4 injectors off the car as the next step.
By Radnorman - 5/17/2012 8:45:00 AM
Some say removing the injectors damages them! Catch 22 ! ?????
By laldog - 5/17/2012 9:33:29 AM
Sounds like Top Gear Norm. It still needs to move forward though so without getting them checked out of the vehicle this could rumble on a while.
By denbo - 5/17/2012 3:14:13 PM
Has this had an oil change recently? Just a thought, the wrong oil can give similar problems.

Dennis
By Robski - 5/17/2012 3:49:35 PM
Radnorman (5/17/2012)
Some say removing the injectors damages them! Catch 22 ! ?????


And some have been swapped round Whistling
By SB126 - 5/17/2012 4:19:26 PM
You say in your first post about the tank being full of MUCK...

The HP pump was fitted before the muck was discovered then its had a new filter.

Its always possible what ever had contaminated, the tank has now contaminated the

new pump and the injectors.

Normal advice when you have a contaminated tank is to replace the complete fuel system.
By ncbng01 - 5/18/2012 3:46:35 AM
Many thanks for all the replies.

We are having problems getting the injectors tested off the vehicle. Two different diesel shops are saying the Siemens injectors are the same to test as the Bosche ones. They have littile or no values to compare them against.... Not come accross this before. If anyone has a good reliable place to get these tested I would be grateful of contact details, even if we have to send them away.

The muck in the tank was bad. it was all slimey silt not loose dirt. We are thinking this could have found its way into the pump, we are setting about stripped it down to inspect.

Would be good to get the injectors tested by a decent reliable source while we are working on it...

Thanks again
By K And R - 5/18/2012 5:15:28 AM
01

"The muck in the tank was bad. it was all slimey silt not loose dirt." black in colour ?

Most likey the only way around this will be, remove the tank again and flush, flush all low pressure lines, new filter, new pump,new HP pipes and new injectors.

And by new i mean genuine ford ones.

Kev.
By ncbng01 - 5/18/2012 5:33:19 AM
Hi K&R

Yes the muck was black, it was like a skin from a rice pudding, but black in colour :-)!

This was after the pump change. We did replace the filter at time of pump. But the pump was changed due to a leak not for fuelling problems, so we just changed the filter at the time as a precaution.

I will post back once we've stripped it out....

Thanks.
By Angus - 5/18/2012 1:13:49 PM
nc

Black in the tank and a leaking HP pump seal - not been run on 'home-brewed' fuel, has it?
By SB126 - 5/18/2012 4:25:26 PM
Sometimes the black slimy stuff that is in diesel is an algee growth.

More commonly seen in marine environments.

http://www.oillab.co.nz/diesel_bug_explained
By K And R - 5/18/2012 4:30:25 PM
SB

All covered by Angus on this Forum years ago.

Kev.
By Catteeclan - 12/1/2012 5:38:01 AM
No more news?Been following this as I have a 1600tdci fiesta running rough when cold for a few mins.
By K And R - 12/1/2012 6:03:32 AM
Catteeclan.

Start a thread of your own with full details of the car and any parts, tests, and code read already carried out.

Kev.
By Timbo - 12/1/2012 4:14:18 PM
ncbng01 (5/14/2012)
Hi,

Beginning to think we may have a problem with a poor valve seat in the head or something similar, that improves as the engine warms up...


I know you have stated the Compressions are good and equal (presumably at stone cold) but could you have a tight valve clearance on no.4 ??? Easy to check before more £££ on injectors or tearing the motor apart. Seen this on GM 1.7's in the past.
By K And R - 12/1/2012 5:08:33 PM
Timbo

ncbng01,s last post on this was in may, so lets hope he is still not working on it.

Kev.
By Catteeclan - 12/2/2012 8:57:09 AM
K And R (12/1/2012)
Timbo

ncbng01,s last post on this was in may, so lets hope he is still not working on it.

Kev.


Ops, I should have noticed that too.
By Timbo - 12/2/2012 10:11:38 AM
Me neither- would have been interesting if the OP ever resolved his issue ??