peugeot 206 1.4 hdi wont start


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By musloc - 7/16/2010 4:27:43 PM
ive got 04 plate 206 1.4 hdi ,was driven into a garage to have new water pump fitted which was done along with new cambelt kit,now it wont start i have car back ive checked timing several times all ok ,no fault codes stored just turns over and over ,primmer pump is full tank is full key is working as are all the electrics ,very thing is plugged in and connected proparly.just wont start
By Essex Hyundai Tech - 7/17/2010 6:44:05 PM
I should imagine if the timing is correct then either a crank or cam sensor is at fault
By jimfree - 7/18/2010 4:34:01 AM
has the fuel cut switch activated ?
By oldford - 7/18/2010 4:49:23 AM
Do you have correct signal from the crankshaft sensor?
Scope or read out rpm during cranking.
By Hammond_Auto - 7/18/2010 5:25:23 AM
So did this problem occur straight after the cambelt was installed? or has it been running since that?
By musloc - 7/18/2010 4:23:23 PM
i bought the car like it ,but previous owner drove it to the garage to have water pump fitted and new cambelt done then it wouldnt start garage didnt have a clue so sold it for him to get some money back,

where is the fuel cut of switch i thought of that but cant find it ,since water pump and cambelt fitted nothing it some times will go to fire but thats it nothing more about every 5 engine turns goes to fire then just turns over

By jimfree - 7/19/2010 2:52:41 AM
will it run on a sniff of easy start?
By musloc - 7/19/2010 3:33:39 AM
yes it will fire up and run on sniff(not for long)
By jimfree - 7/19/2010 5:19:15 PM
can you see live data on vehicle ,ie rail pressure ?
By musloc - 7/20/2010 3:10:17 PM
no but diesel coming out at injectors,just wont start and had code read again still no codes
By K And R - 7/20/2010 3:47:19 PM
Musloc

The diesel should be coming out at the injectors at a pressure so high, that the diesel could be injected into your blood stream and KILL you if you get too close w00t

Kev.

By musloc - 7/20/2010 4:47:16 PM
yes i know that ive worked on hundreds of them just baffled by this one .injector pipe cracked of bit tricky to do but you can just get in to undo them then cranked engine over and diesel is getting to injectors
By K And R - 7/20/2010 5:14:14 PM
Musloc

So you know you have to re-new the pipes you have cracked ? and flow does not mean you have the pressure needed for the injectors to fire.

What is the rail pressure ??

Kev.

By musloc - 7/21/2010 4:00:14 PM
why do i have to re-new the pipes that have been cracked of ,never have done before they just undo and do back up or un clip and clip back on ,any suspect looking plastic pipe ive changed and theres no need to replace metal injector pipes or leak of pipes unless they are damaged,not sure what you mean
By Chris Venning - 7/21/2010 4:32:45 PM
As Kev has already said: it's unsafe to undo high pressure pipes. Do you know rail pressure can reach 1600 bar or over 23000 psi? It is also a known fact that such pipes when disturbed should be replaced.

Your test method is flawed; undoing injector pipes to view pressure or volume is pointless. Once undone or opened, a vessel, in your case the fuel rail will obviously not be under pressure. Also the volume of fuel being delivered is very small.

The only way to proceed is to monitor the pressure in the fuel rail via live data on suitable diagnostic equipment. If it doesn't reach 120 bar, the ECU will not open the injectors, so it won't start.

By K And R - 7/21/2010 4:34:29 PM
Musloc

I could explain why and even post extract,s from numerous makers of Common rail systems  which state any high pressure pipe is a one-off use, just take it that it,s a fact.

But that won,t sort your  problem and knowing what the rail pressure is, MAY    !!!

Kev.

By snap-on - 7/21/2010 4:39:00 PM
the injector pipes have soft ends to get a perfect fit when done up . once undone they need to be replced as they wont seal properly . you can do them up and rev the engine and you wont see it leak , but when you drive it down the road they leak due to the very high pressure .

ive had a transit connect before that wouldnt start due to having a leaking injector pipe . if the injectors dont see enough pressure it wont go . once i replaced pipe it started straight away .

im sure someone will explain properly and in proper terms of why the pipes are use once only .

By musloc - 7/21/2010 4:41:05 PM
i had these engines in bits several times heads pumps injectors ect never had to replace pipes once they have been undone and people ive spoke to never heard of them needing new ones for that reason,but any way no i havent pulled injectors out to see fuel coming out the end ,the car should start normally once fuel is primmed up im having the sfuel pressure checked next couple of days to see what it is i know the pressure it should be so ill see what happens
By David. - 7/21/2010 4:56:02 PM
Not same vehicle as yours, but we had a Ford in with a Common Rail System a little while back, car came in running no problems at all, just booked in for a service. One of the lads carried out a engine service and after changing the fuel filter could not get the car to run, he tried everything imaginable, but the car would not start?  

He checked fuel deliver and loads of fuel was available, he thought must have faulty parts, then he rang Ford and asked their advice, they said, we get loads of problems with Common Rails after servicing them, they become "AIR LOCKED", the Ford Guy said tow start it and you will find it should then be OK.

Our guys put in on the end of a rope and towed it, the car started no problem and ran OKSmile

Not saying this is your problem in hand, but if the manufacturers now make delivery holes in the injectors so small that volume Vs pressure even the air cannot get out fast enough, then after disturbing the system it may be wise to try a tow startSmile

David Green BENG(Hons) MIAEA MIMI

By musloc - 7/22/2010 5:06:51 PM
excaty what i was going and i think it will cure it ,main dealers will replace every part that isnt needed ,as been mentioned before in this post but there is no need what so ever to replace diesel pipes just because they have been undone spoke to several other workshops i have contact with all said nonense main dealer talk only ,you only need to repalce if pipes are faulty
By Angus - 7/22/2010 5:45:31 PM
musloc

There appears to be widespread ignorance of diesel systems around your way.

Crush-fit unions make a reliable seal ONCE.  Yes; they can be refitted; but the needle-fine jet that can then leak is near-invisible - and when it stings your hand, you are dead. 

I've seen what looked like smoke coming off an injector - it was a re-used union leaking two injectors away that was cutting through the hard steel of the injector like a knife.

All manufacturers of common-rail systems speak as one on this subject - if you think you know better than the people who designed it and ignore the most basic safety procedures, then you are just dangerous.

By K And R - 7/22/2010 6:06:49 PM
Musloc.

Perhaps you could answer 2 questions.

1 what pressure in psi are the most advanced production commom rail systems running.

2 what pressure was the system on the Le mans winning diesel running.

or you could ask your local experts, then we could see how much they know.

Kev.

Kev

By musloc - 7/23/2010 3:49:06 PM
this subject has for some reason gone far a stray,

the problem is the car wont start im fully aware of the dangers in common rails as to the pressure ,being in the trade myself and speaking to several other people in the trade few that use bba service all agreed very unlikely the pipes will want chaning just because they have been cracked of(undone) besides which if people have read my problem properly then they would have noticed that the proplem only come about because the belt was changed no feul pipes where touch what so ever when this was done and it still didnt start then so the pipes would not have been tampered with ,i thought this was i problem soloutions page i dont know what is wrong so im not saying what is wrong so far most comments have been avoiding the sujbect just explaining the dangers of common rails which me and my people in the trade know about and the dangers of common rails was not the problem,

im getting the pressure checked in next couple of days some one else siad on the site about fuel cut off switch maybe it is but i cant find it so if its there where is it

By K And R - 7/23/2010 4:45:58 PM
Musloc

jimfree (19/07/2010)
can you see live data on vehicle ,ie rail pressure ?

Your answer:

no but diesel coming out at injectors,just wont start and had code read again still no codes

This is why its gone a stray.

Kev.

By musloc - 7/23/2010 5:04:14 PM
its gone astray becuase some people havent got a clue what problem is like i dont have a clue but im stating i dont have a clue not changing the subject if i dont know i say
By K And R - 7/23/2010 5:22:36 PM
Musloc.

The answer is in the live data, but we don,t have any !!!

Kev.

By musloc - 7/23/2010 5:50:45 PM
as soon as i have live data ill update forum and see where we go from there
By musloc - 8/11/2010 4:35:00 PM
PROBLEM SOLVED,

ALL LIVE DATA WAS GOOD AS IT SHOULD BE WOULDNT PICK UP NO FAULT CODES BUT WE FOUND THE PROBLEM IT WAS THE CRANSHAFT WHEEL THE ONE THAT TURNS THE CAMBELT AND HAS PICK UP POINT FOR CRANK SENSOR,NO FAULT CODES BECAUSE IT WAS GIVING SIGNAL BUT BREAKING WHICH IS WHY IT WOULD GO TO START THEN NOT,PUT NEW ONE ON £26.OO FROM PEUGEOT STARTED FIRST TIME.

THESE PULLEYS WONT PUT UP WITH MUCH STRESS SO ITS WORTH THINKING OR THIS IF YOUVE CHANGED CAMBELT AND IT WONT START AS VERY EASY TO DAMAGE THE OUT SIDE MAGNECTIC EDGE 

(NOT THE ALTERNATOR PULLEY(THE CRANK BET PULLEY))

By K And R - 8/11/2010 5:30:26 PM
Musloc

So you could see RPM in live data ?

Kev

By musloc - 8/12/2010 3:07:39 PM
yes could see rpm in the live data but it was dropping in and out hence the crank wheel damaged every time it picked the signal it would go to fire then signal would drop,because there was a form of signal no fault codes
By K And R - 8/12/2010 7:07:42 PM
K And R (23/07/2010)
Musloc.

The answer is in the live data, but we don,t have any !!!

Kev.

So the answer was in the live data !!!!!

By musloc - 8/13/2010 4:04:28 AM
it was a clue in the live data,but as to all the answers given here like fuel cut off switch car doesnt have one ,and as we are all ignorant about common rails down our way ,no one had any idea we pin pointed the problem with out live data but like i said no fault codes ,but hopefully people with the same problem will check as this is a problem that can happen alot and cause non start.when i spoke to more people down my way they said the same thing would be causing the problem than we had the data checked,
By puggys - 4/22/2013 5:13:30 PM
IM HAVING TROUBLE WITH MY PEUGEOT 206 1.4 HDI ( DIESEL )
MY DAUGHTER WENT DOWN TO ENGLAND AND THEN CAME HOME A WEEK LATER, THEN 2 DAYS LATER SHE WENT BACK DOWN AGAIN.
SHE PARKED IT UP WHEN SHE GOT THERE AND THE NEXT MORNING SHE STARTED IT AND IT MADE A CHURFING NOISE. SHE PHONED THE AA AND THEY CAME OUT TO HER AND THEY SAID IT WAS THE INJECTOR SEALS SO SHE GOT THEM TO BRING HER BACK HOME IN DUNDEE. AND A FEW DAYS LATER I FOLLOWED HER DOWN TO THE GARAGE WHERE THEY HAD CHANGED THE INJECTOR SEALS AND PUT EVERYTHING BACK TO GETHER AND WENT TO START IT AND IT WOULDNT START. ITS TURNING OVER OK . THEY OOK IT 6 MILES WHISLT TRYING TO BUMP START IT BUT NOTHING,

THEY SPRAYED EASY START IN IT AND IT STARTED BUT WHEN YOU STOP SPRAYING I THE ENGING WOULD CUT OUT. BUT WHEN IT WAS RUNNING IT WAS NOCKING LIKE HELL.

DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY IDEAS
By tk - 4/22/2013 5:23:07 PM
Copy and paste Puggs and start a new post including your engine number.
By Robski - 4/22/2013 5:25:07 PM
Whoa no need to shout !

Injectors wire brushed ?

Best start a new thread.........
By K And R - 4/22/2013 6:18:51 PM
Puggy

CAPS is considered as SHOUTING so knock off your CAPS LOCK.

Start a new thread please, with full details.

Any time these injectors are removed they can be damaged, the main dealers will always advise a new set may be needed.

Kev.
By xBenn - 4/22/2013 6:27:22 PM
What odd are you guys giving on wire brushed injectors or injector fault? Please create a new thread though..

On a side note, I just read this whole thread - what an idiot the original poster was back in 2010! gave me a good chuckle..
By Angus - 4/22/2013 7:23:26 PM
xb

Or overtightened..? But yeah; I'll go with the wire brush too.