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Fiat scudo 1.9 jtd (2000my) double relay issue **FIXED***

Posted By fenair 10/21/2010 1:19:06 PM
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fenair
 Posted 10/21/2010 1:19:06 PM
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Hi All,
I have coming in tomorrow a 2000 year fiat scudo, vague at present so sorry, what i know is that the van has suffered a meltdown to a portion of the loom serving, i'm lead to believe the vac valve for the egr and possible other items (phone picture attached) ( like i said vague) however the van has been immobilised by battery disconnection, so no one at present knows what damage has been done.

my question;

are the ecu's for these models swap-able ( remove from a donor and install), or do they require pairing to the bsi, to function ( remove ecu and bsi + keys locks and immobiliser from donor)?

I ask as i make the assumption that with a meltdown in the engine loom that the ecu will most probably be spiked.

advice as always is greatly appreciated

Regards
Pat....
11/27/2010 5:58:24 AM by fenair
Angus
 Posted 10/21/2010 2:01:28 PM
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Pat

First; be cautious of the presence of hydrofluoric acid in any burn-up.  Wear acid-proof gloves.

Second; that fire looks to have concentrated much lower down - it could be that the hanging EGR[?] cable was only collateral damage.  Beware also of a possible high-pressure fuel leak - invisible, but utterly deadly.

I'd steam-clean it first and then see what you can find - I've had fires in the electrically-heated breather pipes on HDis, but not all versions have them.

If those feed pipes are still fuel-tight; I'd isolate [cut] the damaged wiring; lay newspaper over the front of the engine; shut the bonnet and try to start it.  If it runs, turn it off after a few seconds; open the bonnet and check the paper for fuel stains - if you find any, don't go anywhere near it with the engine running.

.

fenair
 Posted 10/21/2010 2:28:22 PM
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Hi Angus,
many thanks for your good advice,

i will do a though clean and investigation tomorrow,

the paper is a excellent idea, must say checking for perforated lines would have been way down the line, probably never if it would run.... so thanks for the reminder...

nice to hear from you again, i will update you more once i have a better idea in 24 hours

Kind Regards
Pat...
fenair
 Posted 10/23/2010 3:56:56 AM
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update: on inspection it would appear that the starter motor failed to dis-engadge turning into a generator and heated up melting the fuel pipes to the filter housing and the adjacent harness . ecu communicates with lexia, and engine turns over.
the quest is now searching the slightly damp fenland breakers yards for parts....

update to follow...

pat
fenair
 Posted 10/27/2010 2:09:42 PM
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Hi all, ok had a few spare minutes today with the scudo, fitted new fuel filter and associated pipe work, one wire was in need of repair, live feed to the maf.

new starter fitted, and engine runs ok.

several error messages, ( appears there has been some previous issues as the instrument cluster has been removed and the eml light disabled)

the main concern i have at present, is the fuel pump dose not cut out, there is a error message relating to the fuel pressure sensor open circuit.

my question is were is the pressure sensor?

engine is the 2.0 jtd with a bosch edc 15 system. ( the one with the fuel filter over the starter motor)

i also have a message to relating to the maf; open circuit or short to + , data shows fluctuation on revs, auto data gives no info on testing and i have no scope, so any thoughts as how to determine a faulty unit, i have 12v on pin 2 at the maf sensor.

and finally, reading the live data, i have a fuel pressure of 392bar which rises on throttle application, but a difference on measured pressure of -178 bar which remains static, is this the reference sensor the one on the fuel rail? what measurements can i obtain to verify its function.

kind regards and thanks in advance
pat...
Angus
 Posted 10/27/2010 3:22:47 PM
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Pat

Loads of questions there; so just a few replies.

The fuel pressure sensor is in the bottom of the rail - just where the fire was....  Wiring OK?

It should have 5.00v on one end; a good earth on the other and 0.5v key-on; 1.1v idling and 2-ish revved on the middle pin.  [The modified wiring adaptor makes reading these much easier.]

Your pressure readings look like default values generated in the ECU - these are quite clever.

Do you mean the tank pump runs permanently?  Does it's relay prime for 10 secs at key-on and then shut off?  Wiring at the inertia switch unbodged?

.

fenair
 Posted 10/27/2010 3:45:42 PM
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Thanks for the response Angus.

the fuel pump runs on the key (pos2- ignition), you can hear the pump load up / labour at this point it should then shut off approx 2-4 seconds, but it just continues to run.

the odd thing is there is a fuse marked with a fuel pump and parking brake symbol in the fuse box next to the battery , i have removed it but the pump continues to run?

strangely i only have 1 relay in this compartment and one in the fuse panel behind the glove box, i have a error message that the supply relay is stuck? where is the supply relay? ( many questions i know, sorry )
thanks
Pat..
Angus
 Posted 10/27/2010 4:35:23 PM
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Pat

I've a feeling that this will have the same double relay as the Peugeots.  Do you have a [brown?] double relay anywhere in the engine bay with a 15-pin locked-on plug?

What's the engine code?  What was the fault-code number for the stuck relay?

There are two fuseboxes in the engine bay - and two types of each; what fuse number was the fuel pump on yours - fuse 16 or 2?

.

fenair
 Posted 10/28/2010 2:22:01 PM
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Thanks for getting back to us Angus,

ok here's the state of play today, whilst at the breakers i acquired a fuel rail pressure sensor and replaced it, as the original plastic connector was not making a good fit, now data reads correct.

As for fuel pump it still runs continuous, investigations, found a bodged wire job ( see attached pics ) the blue wire from one side of the fuse is cut and soldered to its neighbour and the feed or return from the relay is joined to a black wire which then joins to the orange wire above the ignition barrel !!.

This relay part number 9631577880 made by Bitron, looks out of place to me, as there is no place for it to be fixed, and just is lodged against the inner wing, sadly the donor i have used suffered a heavy impact to the n/s smashing the relay and other electrical items so i could not salvage a replacement.

why has this wiring job been done?

i will list the fault codes as scanned today:

engine 2.0 jtd RHX
ecu EDC15C2

codes:
P0100, perm fault; air flow meter signal open circuit or short to earth

P0230, perm fault; fuel low pressure pump supply, open circuit or short to earth.

P0215, intermittant fault; supply relay open circuit or short to earth.

P0243, inttermittant fault; turbo pressure short to earth or open circuit.

P0380, inttermittant fault; pre/post heat relay relay stuck.

P1108, intemittant fault; fan high speed circuit short to earth or open circuit.

good hey ??

Data shows, Turbo electrovalve ocr 95% ; this dose not change upon throttle application....

scanned with lexia3 and pug planet, can't clear faults, but eml light extinguishes upon start up??

Advice anyone?

Kind Regards
Pat...

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Angus
 Posted 10/28/2010 5:34:58 PM
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Pat

I wondered if the bodgers had visited - hence my previous question.  Could have been done for many reason - ignorance of how it's supposed to work being the most likely...

Bitron is indeed the maker of those 15-pin relays - be aware that there are many versions, that all look the same, if you're hunting the scrappies.

P0100; are you getting live-data for airflow?  Broken wire?

P0215/P0230; you've found the cause of them!

P0243; measure resistence of turbo-control solenoid.

P0380; they've nearly all got that one - glow-plug[s] or relay gone.

P1108; corroded relays/wiring by the fan?

Most of those don't put the MIL on as they're not emission related.

.


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