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Citroen Xsara Piccasso '53 2.0 Hdi EGR problem

Posted By mopoyser 5/31/2011 5:11:42 AM
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mopoyser
 Posted 5/31/2011 5:11:42 AM
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Citroen Xsara Piccasso '53 2.0 Hdi, RHY Struggling to read this car with the Launch to get any fault codes, but the description is:

EGR Circuit Air flow higher than setting.

I believe there can be a problen with the egr butterfly, but this appears to be working.

Can anyone tell me how the EGR / Butterfly vacume controllers work?

I have vacume from the pump (25" Hg) takes a few seconds to build up.

As soon as I connect one of the Controllers there is no Vacume, doesnt matter which controller.

Is this correct?  This is at idle

Thanks

Mark.

Angus
 Posted 5/31/2011 9:43:27 AM
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Mark

AFAIK they're just normal vacuum solenoids - with the usual vac-dump ability.

So are you losing vacuum with them powered and are the vac hoses on the right stubs?

The EGR flow reading may be done by the MAF?

A P-code would help - tried reading it as EOBD?

.

mopoyser
 Posted 5/31/2011 10:59:07 AM
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Angus (31/05/2011)
Mark

AFAIK they're just normal vacuum solenoids - with the usual vac-dump ability.

So are you losing vacuum with them powered and are the vac hoses on the right stubs?

The EGR flow reading may be done by the MAF?

A P-code would help - tried reading it as EOBD?

Thanks for the reply

I think the Flow reading is done by the MAF it should read 200 ish, but is reading 400 ish (got my actia updated and reading it)

Still cant get any P code though although the lamp comes on the dash.

If I manualy (suck on the pipe!) close the butterfly I can get the reading to come down.

I have fitted one new solenoid, ( non Genuine) but it is still the same, apparently letting vacume straight through (to dump) and not pulling the valve shut.

Tried reading with EOBD, but still cant get any readings Angry

Got a reading looking at it as a Pug 307 and got P0400 and P0485, but dont know wether to trust these codes or not.

The pipes are on as it was when it came in , no reason to think anyone else has altered them. there is a blue one and black one, both look as if they are going to the correct place. Just checked again, stub marked 'out' going to the butterfly, stub marked 'vac' is vacume in.

Should I be able to hear the solenoids click as they are powered? and do they run 12v, I could try them individually with my power probe.

Angus
 Posted 5/31/2011 12:00:54 PM
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Mark

A 307 should be near enough for EOBD purposes.

P0485 is a cooling fan issue - anything reported?

Manually moving the intake valve will restrict the flow - not sure if it's a valid test though.

What duty cycle is being shown for the EGR valve solenoid and the intake valve solenoid?  99% is fully open.

The solenoids should have a live feed [fused] and be controlled by pulse width modulation of the earth side by the ECU.  They buzz, not click.

DO NOT USE A POWER PROBE!!  [Ever... w00t ]

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mopoyser
 Posted 6/2/2011 4:35:14 AM
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Angus (31/05/2011)
Mark

DO NOT USE A POWER PROBE!!  [Ever... w00t ]

 

BigGrin

Thanks for the info, its back in next week to have another play.

Mark.

mopoyser
 Posted 6/6/2011 6:08:52 AM
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Managed to use my Actia to read it from EOBD. Got the following codes;

P0402

P0400

Powertrain Info was;

Coolant 47 C,  Intake MAP 99KPA (cant find a map sensor on this, so not sure if this is correct) air temp 13 C, air flow 13.88g/s, fuel P 30250 Kpa.

If I read it through the Actia diagnostics under the correct car / engine is says 'no Fault'  even with the mil lamp on!

Reading the parameters under the correct car / engine warm  at Idle I am getting;

Air flow 488 mg/impulse (should be around 200)

EGR solenoid OCR 5%

EGR Butterfly OCR 5%

When reved up to approx 2000 Rpm readings are;

Air flow 600 mg/impulse

EGR solenoid OCR 99%

EGR Butterfly OCR 0% 

mopoyser
 Posted 6/6/2011 6:52:49 AM
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Watching it now on a graph

The readings are both 5% at idle, as soon as the cars revs are increased the EGR goes to 99% and the EGR butterfly goes to 0% as the revs are increased further to approx 2600, 2700 both return to 5% and stay there. Only moving back to 99% and 0% when the car is revved up again.

According to the Actia, the reference values (presumably at idle) should be 70 to 95 for the EGR Valve, and 760 to 800 for Butterfly (recycling forcing throttle)

Angus
 Posted 6/6/2011 9:57:49 AM
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Mark

The RHY doesn't have a MAP sensor - no variable-vane turbo to control.

99% should be fully open for the EGR valve - does the throttle butterfly open more with a high OCR or a lower one?

.

mopoyser
 Posted 6/7/2011 10:25:10 AM
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Not sure, I will have to have a look, may have to strip it off to find out. Its not very easy to get to on this.

Still not sure what information to believe on my Actia. ( just spent best part of a grand updating it! w00t )

Under EOBD it tells me one thing in live data and reading it under Citroen it gives another!

Shows codes under EOBD, but wont clear them, but shows no codes under Citroen Angry but the MIL is on.

Just on a hunch, as the MAF controls the EGR, I unplugged it.    Codes cleared and MIL light straight out!  w00t

Could the MAF be reading incorrectly and so controlling the EGR system incorrectly?

Had to give the car back to the customer, still not fixed, but back in a couple of days.

I love Citroens BigGrin

Angus
 Posted 6/7/2011 10:34:59 AM
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Mark

So the codes will clear with the MAF unplugged!  Yep; it's French all right! w00t

Yes; it just could be a MAF fault - it measures the effect when the EGR opens/butterfly closes.  [I'll never say never on one of these...]

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