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Ford Focus TDCi 2003 - Suspected failed injectors and/or Pump.

Posted By davegsm82 9/3/2013 7:46:39 AM
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davegsm82
 Posted 9/3/2013 7:46:39 AM
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Hi Guys,

I've got a friends Focus in to look at today, its a non-runner and died on the motorway last week. It was running fine until the engine lost power and the glow plug light started flashing, after a couple of minutes at the side of the road it started again but very roughly. After this it died again and hasn't run since.

The AA man came along and recovered it, shoved some Ezee-start up the intake and did a really really helpful clear of all the DTC's (thanks mate). He lifted the pipe from injector #1 and did a pressure test, apparently it was only reaching 60 BAR. This is confirmed by the DTC P1211 and P0251 which have re-appeared since trying to start.

I have pulled the spill-off pipes one by one (and also disconnected the injector power connectors) and on cranking fuel is coming out of injector spill-off's on 3 and 4 quite quickly, there is a fair amount coming from 1 and 2 as well, but only about half of what's coming from 3 and 4. If I attach a piece of silicone hose with an ID of about 2-3mm, the fuel advances up the pipe at about 4-6" every second of cranking, bare in mind that this is similar for ALL injectors.

I suspect that the fuel pump has thrown bits of itself (or other contaminants) into the injectors which has jammed them, which is why it can no longer reach full pressure (1600Bar IIRC) would this be a fair assumption?

Is there anything I can do to test further or would it be a case of stripping the injectors to see what's going on?

I know the spill off isn't normal, as my MK4 golf doesn't even spill-off fuel at that rate even when running.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Dave.
K And R
 Posted 9/3/2013 8:07:19 AM
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Dave

"Is there anything I can do to test further"

Yes, test the pump with something like delphi YTD278 and YTD410 to see if it can develope to correct max pressure.

Kev.


"If you dont KNOW how it works, don,t try to test or fix it"
Favell
 Posted 9/3/2013 8:17:27 AM
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Hi Dave and welcome to the forum

The AA man should really know better than to start taking pipes off injectors to measure pressure etc. when any of these pipes are undone they need replacing.

From the basic spill back test you have done it does look like you have injector problems. These will need bench testing by a diesel specialist that has can do a proper test on them.

Worn or stuck injectors can destroy the fuel rail pressure and prevent the engine starting. If your pump has started to fail the debris could be causing the injector problems. These injectors are manufactured to very fine tolerances, if you strip it down you will interfere with this and the injector will just become a piece of scrap!

Check the fuel supply is good to the pump. Check the filter for any metal filings etc.

If in any doubt get the pump tested by a Diesel shop that has the facilities to carry out a proper check.

Also, once you get the injectors out do a compression check on the engine, I have known injector faults to put holes in pistons or do other serious damage. you dont want to spend lots on the injectors and pump to find the engine is scrap.

HTH

Fav
davegsm82
 Posted 9/3/2013 11:59:19 AM
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Hello again.

Thanks for the advice Kev and Fav.

Yes, I'd heard that you shouldn't re-use the pipes, also, Mr AA very kindly mangled the threaded nut on injector number 1.

Well, after doing a bit more research and coming to my own conclusion that the injectors were definitely goosed, I went and did something that you shouldn't do. (after making a puller) I ripped out the injectors and stripped them down, then cleaned them in a fairly powerful ultrasonic cleaning bath.

As I was stripping them (one at a time, then re-building) I was checking for any signs of debris, swarf or anything but found absolutely nothing inside apart from what could only be described as a small amount of jelly like substance in injector number 4.

Also, on one of the video's I've seen the guy making the video describes how the valve should basically fall out under it's own weight. The valve in question looks like a mini intake/exhaust valve with 6 holes around the outside edge. From what I can gather, this is attracted to the solenoid and is essentially the flow controller. On my injectors, only 1 'fell out', 2 of them had to be pushed gently and the last one had to be pushed out with a fair bit of force. I think that was number 4.

After re-assembling, the result was this;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkssopVV8Tg

Running, badly, on about 3-ish cylinders. I performed the same leak-off test, this showed that Injectors 1,3 and 4 still had loads of leak, but number 2 seems fine.

I used FORScan to run an 'Oscilloscope' trace on the fuel rail pressure, the result is that it varies linearly with engine rev's, please see the attached picture for info. In the picture, the max value for voltage is 0.81V, I'm not 100% sure what this equates to in real money (BAR/MPa etc), perhaps someone has any information on this? The large pointed peaks are where I rev the engine up to about 4krpm and drop it back, the flat section at the very end is idle, the flat bit before that is about 2.5krpm.

Any more advice would be greatly appreciated as I'm more used to working on VAG stuff, ford diesels are a whole other language to me.

Thanks, Dave.
 leaskys car.jpg (17 views, 150.14 KB)
Angus
 Posted 9/3/2013 11:59:31 AM
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Dave

Before you do anything else; check that it has enough fuel in the tank - and that the fuel coming to the pump is air-free diesel...

Very, very, rare for excess leak-off to be able to stop an engine at motorway speed - and then be able to restart when cranked?


.
wor-mate
 Posted 9/3/2013 1:58:31 PM
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most times the reason the plunger in the valve inside the injectors need pushed out is because microscopic swarf is causing them to bind.

you need to inspect the filter, pump, lines, tank and rail.
davegsm82
 Posted 9/3/2013 4:54:34 PM
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Hi Angus,

There's a quarter of a tank of diesel in it and it had been running absolutely fine, I agree that it's very strange for it to lose all pressure at speed. This is why I suspected the pump, this coupled with very leaky injectors had me wondering but I guess whatever was in there was pretty bad even if I couldn't see it.

I can only guess that I've not cleaned them good enough or torqued them up enough for them to run right, possibly coupled with a failing/low pressure pump.

Wor-Mate (your name sounds like you're local to me, Newcastle way?) I'm going to try and somehow slice the fuel filter open without causing more swarf, once I get the new one in, I'll devise some way of flushing the lines, rails etc.

As a side note, I recon some very strong magnets clamped onto the fuel hoses or round the outside of a secondary filter would be of benefit.

Dave.
Robski
 Posted 9/3/2013 5:02:06 PM
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test the pump with something like delphi YTD278 and YTD410 to see if it can develop to correct max pressure
Good advice if you ask me ............ you then know if you're batting or bowling.


Rob.

Scan it, Smoke it, Scope it....... Don't just poke & hope it © ™ BigGrin
davegsm82
 Posted 9/3/2013 5:22:06 PM
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Robski (9/3/2013)
test the pump with something like delphi YTD278 and YTD410 to see if it can develop to correct max pressure
Good advice if you ask me ............ you then know if you're batting or bowling.


This is the problem though, I don't have access to professional equipment, I'm a medical engineer not a 'professional' mechanic so there's no point in me buying loads of expensive gear for a one-off job of looking at a car for a mate Ermm


I think I'm part of the way to finding whether I'm batting or bowling, i.e. the engine runs, albeit badly and incompletely where it didn't run before. There was blatantly a problem with something jamming the injectors open, #2 appears to work fine now and has a fraction of the leak-off of #1,3 and 4. Now that I've been in and de-mystified the scary injectors I feel somewhat closer to solving the problem.


Dave.
Robski
 Posted 9/3/2013 5:30:09 PM
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This is the problem though, I don't have access to professional equipment, I'm a medical engineer not a 'professional' mechanic so there's no point in me buying loads of expensive gear for a one-off job of looking at a car for a mate
Hmmm think i'll help my mate out tomorrow & save him going to the hospital & perform brain surgery on him....

I think I'm part of the way to finding whether I'm batting or bowling
So is it the injectors then or the HP pump or LP side ?


#2 appears to work fine now
Appears ? is it or isn't it ?


Desired/actual FRP, IMV duty cycle ?

I almost forgot to ask........ did the injectors go back in the same cyls ?

Rob.

Scan it, Smoke it, Scope it....... Don't just poke & hope it © ™ BigGrin
9/3/2013 5:38:25 PM by Robski

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