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Peugeot 106 No Spark - At a loss!

Posted By Maccer Tuesday, October 15, 2013 2:43:17 PM
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Maccer
 Posted Tuesday, October 15, 2013 2:43:17 PM
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Hi all,

I've signed up for this forum because I've seen some very helpful posts to other users about electrical gremlins on 106s so I'm really hoping someone can help!

This was my situation up til today - post copied from 205gtidrivers forum;

My girfriend's old 106 has stopped running and it's not getting any spark. It's a 1.4i single point TU3MC Bosch MA 3.0.

I think it's the coilpack but wanted to check with you guys on here before I start swapping bits out..



DSC04141s_zps71e72960.jpg



I've been using the above diagram from the book.

There's 12v from pin 3 on the coilpack connector when cranking and continuity on wires 110 and 111 between the coil and ECU.

Both sides of the fuel injector relay are functioning, the left side is switched with the ignition on and the right side is on when cranking.

I looked up how to test the coilpack and the haynes book says there should be continuity between the low tension +ive and the two low tension -ives. I found on the coilpack there's continuity between all 4 of the contacts in any combination. Not sure if this is right or not but it would mean continuity between the three pins the haynes specifies at least.

The book then also says there should be continuity between the HT side and the +ive LT feed. I get nothing between any of the HT terminals and any of the coilpack contacts. The top two HT terminals and the bottom two HT terminals have continuity as pairs - top pair, bottom pair. Does any of this point to a faulty CP?


So - I bought a second hand coilpack which arrived today and still no spark - the other pack tests out exactly as the one on the car - continuity between all 4 pins on the connector end, continuity between terminals 1-2 and 3-4, but nothing between the live pin 3 and any of the HT terminals. I'm assuming at this point the coil is fine and that either the Haynes is wrong or my multimeter is not good enough?

I turned back to the coilpack wiring connector, while cranking I tested for 12v between pins 3-1 and 3-2 expecting to see some kind of pulsing as the ECU earths each part of the coil. I got absolutely nothing. I have an old analogue multimeter so I'm not sure whether I would actually see anything doing this test? I thought I might at least see a flicker of the needle, I had it on the 10v setting so it would be a bit more sensitive, but as I say nothing, not even a flicker of the needle.

At this point I can only assume the ECU is not signalling the coil to fire, and my understanding is the only other thing that the ECU needs is the crank position sensor signal? I've tested the wires to the CKS for continuity - all check out. With the ignition on (not cranking) I get 4v on pin 1 to the sensor, don't know if this is right as there's nothing specified in the Haynes book.
I've not tried testing for a signal when cranking as I'd need to either splice into the wires or make up something to go inbetween the connectors.

I guess my question is, am I along the right lines - should I have seen something on the multimeter when testing the coilpack wiring and can I be safe to say the ECU is not firing the coil?
Can I move on to the CKS as the main focus?
Anything else I should check?
SB126
 Posted Tuesday, October 15, 2013 3:04:02 PM
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Primary resistance should be 0.8 ohm between pin 1 and 2, and pin 1 and 3.

secondary resistance should be Bosch coil pack 14600 ohm between 1&4 and 2&3 and 8600 ohm for a Sagem coil pack

Checking for continuity is not really going to help.
Angus
 Posted Tuesday, October 15, 2013 3:07:16 PM
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M

It's a singlepoint so the injector is visible. Is it injecting fuel when cranking - yes/no?

Year and engine code from the VIN would be useful.


.
Maccer
 Posted Tuesday, October 15, 2013 3:26:34 PM
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Hi Angus,

I haven't checked the injector directly when cranking. I have assumed fuel because I could smell it heavily when I removed the spark plugs but as I say have not really got that far because I came across no spark first.

Is this also in relation to the crank sensor?

Hi SB, thanks for the info, I'll test and come back

Cheers, Mike
SB126
 Posted Tuesday, October 15, 2013 3:38:48 PM
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When you have checked for fuel and your coil.

Make sure that the 12volts that you have on pin 3 can carry a current by attaching a bulb into the circuit.
Angus
 Posted Tuesday, October 15, 2013 3:42:45 PM
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Mike

I'm having to guess it's a KDX and early nineties..? Year and VIN would save a lot of checking of options.

Various immobilizers were fitted - which type has it got?

The injector won't pulse without a crank signal.

What type of diagnostic socket is fitted and have you got a scanner that can talk to it - checking the crank sensor signal is child's play in live-data.

The crank sensor has three pins in its plug. One (M123) is an earthed screen; the sensor's resistance between the other two (from 132 and 133) plug disconnected should be 300-500 ohms. It should self-generate 2-10 volts AC across that pair when cranked disconnected.


.
Maccer
 Posted Tuesday, October 15, 2013 4:39:33 PM
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Ok, Found the ohm adjuster on the multimeter - it would only adjust down to 10ohms on the most sensitive setting, not 0 but still I managed to get readings off the replacement coilpack (just taking 10ohm off). Got between 0-1 on the connector side and between 8-9000ohms on the two pairs of HT terminals so that looks to be in spec - where do you find those kind of test values by the way?

Angus - yes its a KDX engine 1993 (venerable old beast!) full VIN is OVF31AKDX8505802690, as far as I know, no immobiliser fitted?
The diagnostic socket is a 2 pin jobby so nothing sophisticated unfortunately - I have an LED on a rope which I read the codes with - no codes stored when I checked, it just flashed 12 then 11, start and end.

SB - if I don't have any 12v bulbs handy can I check it using the amps part of the multimeter - I have one setting which is 12A DC?

Thanks for your quick responses and great help - much appreciated!
Angus
 Posted Tuesday, October 15, 2013 4:54:06 PM
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Mike

Without live-data or checking the injector pulsing, you're going to have to do those crank sensor tests manually.

Either it has no engine speed reading and isn't pulsing the injector or the coil - or someone fitted NGK plugs and fried the ECU coil drivers.


.
SB126
 Posted Tuesday, October 15, 2013 5:17:32 PM
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Maccer im sure there are some 12 volt bulbs on the car. A 21 watt indicator bulb requires 1.75 amps. to glow nice and bright.

If the injector is firing fuel then this will confirm the CKP is working.

And then you can check if you have a good load tested feed to the coil on pin 3 a good earth on pin 4 and

as you have a LED we can then check if we are getting a trigger from the ECU to the coil on pins 1 & 2
Maccer
 Posted Tuesday, October 15, 2013 5:17:37 PM
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Possible progress! I've just removed the crank sensor and between the two pins it's reading about 100ohms..
Is this enough to warrant a replacement as is?
Tuesday, October 15, 2013 5:30:14 PM by Maccer

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