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2005 Renault Kangoo 1.5 dCi engine code K9K 702 EGR problem

Posted By Thema 7/3/2008 2:54:12 PM
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Thema
 Posted 7/3/2008 2:54:12 PM
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Hi all. Have a problem with the above Renault (same engine as fitted to a Clio II 1.5 dCi). Came in with the MIL on but running fine. Faults stored where:-

1014 EGR solenoid valve faulty
100C EGR position sensor short circuit or short to earth
100C again but with description of EGR position sensor less than minmum

and on diesel OBD
P0487 Control for EGR recirculation mixture flap

Took the EGR valve/solenoid out and it was like a block of soot. It wouldnt budge when run through the actuator test and in fact I couldnt make it budge with a pair of pliers. So I replaced it with a new one from Renault (made by Pierburg). Now all faults codes cleared but every time you start the engine the 1014 code comes back instantly and, after about five minutes, the MIL comes back on. The strange thing is (having played about with it!) when the fault is showing the live data shows EGR solenoid as off and position as 0 against desired position of about 18. If you disconnect it, start the engine and then plug it in with engine running no fault code, EGR solenoid shows as on and actual position follows the desired position almost exactly. Till you switch engine off and, with EGR solenoid plugged in, start it and the fault comes back, every time.

Voltage drop at battery when cranking doesnt seem excessive (drops to about 9.7 volts) but obviously something happens just as the engine starts. Anyone any ideas what though?

Any and all ideas gratefully received, as always.

Regards Peter
7/20/2008 5:14:53 AM by Thema
Angus
 Posted 7/3/2008 3:48:43 PM
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Peter

9.7 volts is too low; try it with some extra power linked in?

.

Thema
 Posted 7/3/2008 4:41:10 PM
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Thanks for the reply Angus, I didnt think 9.7 volts was too bad but tried again with a booster pacl cpnnected up. Voltage under cranking now 10.47 volts and problem remains I'm afraid!
Since I first posted I have alos tried it with a jump lead earthing the battery to the engine and body, but that was no help either. As an aside even on a scope the voltage under cranking is very brief as it starts instantly. No problems there then!

I have thought about RF interference from the starter (some of the loom is fairly close to it) but how do you prove that?

regards Peter
manicmotors
 Posted 7/3/2008 4:48:19 PM
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peter

not 100% but i thought on that year the egr had to be adapted? reprogrammed?

Thema
 Posted 7/3/2008 5:34:19 PM
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You know I was REALLY hoping no-one was going to suggest that Manic! I'll check with Renault in the morning but I'm not sure it explains why it works fine if you clear the fault codes and plug it in only after the engine is running. All my KTS offers is basic setting (which I have tried).

Do you think the customer would accept it as a repair if I showed them how to plug and unplug it as they go?

Thema
 Posted 7/4/2008 12:54:33 PM
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Just an update for all you people who are eagerly following this thread! This morning I push started it down the hill. No starter motor must equal no voltage drop but still the same problem.As soon as it fires up the fault comes back. Spoke to Renault who were not very helpful but said to drive it around a bit and that would adapt it to the car ( ie let it learn what position the EGR valve is in). But as it works fine if you plug it in after the engine has started then surely it must be adapted already?

As futher background the owner took the car to Renault about 3 months ago as the MIL was on and they cleaned the EGR valve (didnt look like it to me!) but the light only stayed out for two weeks. They have been driving it like that since until, like a fool, I told them I could fix it...
Thema
 Posted 7/20/2008 5:23:05 AM
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More and more puzzling! Never really came to any conclusions about this one. I had decided that there must be a fault with the ECU (or its software) but cutsomer didnt want to pay to have it tested. As he said the car was running fine and the light had been on for three months anyway so I cleaned up the old EGR valve and managed to get it working, refitted it and he went off with the car as it was when it came in. He has just stopped by today to say that he filled up with Shell diesel (apparently they normally buy from Tesco) and within five miles the light went out and has stayed out for a week now!

I know Tesco fuel isnt the best quality but lots of my customers use it with no ill effects and anyway I dont see how fuel quality can cause this particular problem. Just coincidence or does anyone have any other ideas?
manicmotors
 Posted 7/20/2008 8:33:49 AM
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thema

it adapted itself???????BigGrin

K And R
 Posted 7/20/2008 8:54:34 AM
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Martin.

I nearly post the same earlier, but thought that it was to obvious w00t,Then i wondered if the beer from last night was talking BigGrin

Bob, Russ, Ian and me called it a night about 2.30 Coolor maybe they started again once they got rid of ME Hehe

Kev.

"If you dont KNOW how it works, don,t try to test or fix it"

Thema
 Posted 7/21/2008 5:24:32 PM
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Yes, I wondered about it adapting itself as well, but two things bother me. 1 They have done 600 miles in the car which seems a long time for it to sort itself out and 2 dont forget it has now has the original valve back in, freed off and working though.

The customer is adamant that it was the Shell fuel that did it and has paid my labour, although I do now have a Renault dCi EGR valve in stock! Anyway, they are regular customers so I we will see if it lasts. I may sell them that EGR valve yet. I know I'm repeating myself but what really puzzles is what happens in that split second as the engine fires up that upsets it. Remember. start it with valve unplugged and then plug it when running, all fine. Otherwise, even if push started, you get the DTC and valve doesnt operate. I spoke to local Renault who basically said "Dunno", so that was useful!

Ah well, thanks for taking notice all.


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